🌲 🔥

thanks lina for motivating me to finally figure out how to get emoji displayed in hexchat (installed unifont on linux)

rhunt: hi, can you take a look at these bustages? treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=…=unclassified&selectedJob=227374520

glandium, hi :), did you ran into this yet, happens with ff66 on Ubuntu 14.04 where libstdc++6 comes from gcc 4.8 -- "138:27.57 ./host_ListCSSProperties: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6: version `CXXABI_1.3.9' not found (required by ./host_ListCSSProperties)" -- launchpadlibrarian.net/410390322/bu…d1-0ubuntu0.14.04.3_BUILDING.txt.gz

ugh, i just restarted my linux nightly to apply an update and got stuck in a loop of it showing me a page that it needed to restart to apply an update

and then i quit and started it again and it lost all my pinned tabs?

not 100% sure how/where to ask questions or make suggestions about firefox

there are like a million websites pertaining to mozilla, between github, bugzilla, etc.

is there no way to re-enable the upload portion of the built in screenshot ?

i think it's kinda bad to take away a feature some people used because other people were confused by it. just disable it by default and let the people who really want to use it re-enable it, imo

via the config panel

many articles called it a "dark" feature or "dark ui" or whatever. okay fine, people were confused by it. call it upload, disable it by default, and let the 2% of us who used the upload feature MORE than doanload or copy to clipboard, re-enable that upload feature for ourselves

and like

rn i cant even figure out how to make an account to ask a question on the support forums?

like mozillas organizational structure is so confusing and bizarre. why is it like this?

why cant i just log into something and ask a question and get an answer

supposedly it's open source but it has a funny way of making users feel powerless

and of course irc is dead as a doornail

mib_qkaxmr: This is not really the appropriate channel, #firefox might be better but everything tends to be pretty quiet on the weekend

doesn't even list firefox AS an irc channel

this is what i'm talking about with the confusing mess that is mozilla organizational structure

i stumbled on that IRC doc when looking for a way to contact ANYBODY with a pulse and it listed only 3 channels and lo-and-behold not 1 are appropriate for me

I hope you can see why something like this would be frustrating. I'm spending an enormous amount of time and energy just trying to get my OPINION out there to SOMEONE that can do something about this feature that really sold me on firefox, believe it or not.

This is probably a better list: wiki.mozilla.org/IRC#Commonly_Used_Mozilla_IRC_Channels

This is so silly.

I just want to make a recommendation somewhere where an actual firefox developer will see it and actually consider it.

How do I do that?

If it's a feature request or a bug then bugzilla is probably the best place to put it

How is it intuitive that a feature request would go on a website named "bugzilla"

Which would ostensibly be for reporting bugs.

So now I shall need a Github account in order to put out a request that Mozilla gives me BACK a feature that they had 14 days ago?

What is this universe right now...

Oh, if this is to request that they bring back the uploads feature of screenshots then it probably isn't worth filing it. Pretty sure that decision is fixed at this point

What is the point of a collaborative open-source browser if decisions can be fixed?

And also why are they making unilateral black and white decisions for users? Just make it a boolean in the config tab and then let the users who like the feature turn it on.

I really don't understand.

Nobody asked me if I wanted them to remove a feature I used every day

It is open source in that anyone can make suggestions, file bugs, use the code, contribute. But there still have to be decision makers otherwise it would be chaos.

It already is chaos.

I'm on IRC complaining instead of a more conventional platform because that's how chaotic and widespread mozilla is online.

And it's the WRONG irc at that.

Yep, it's not straightforward to get into from the outside

So for normal users we just have features disappearing and then no clear way to voice our thoughts.

Like as far as I can tell there is no forum.

It's just threads on things like github and bugzilla and IRC and none of that is something the average normal person uses or would find easy to navigate.

So I'm being affected by things but not having a voice.

That's bad.

there's a "submit feedback" in the help menu for regular users

irc and forums is more for the open source community

And how would I even know that without someone telling me?

it's usually the first place people look at when they need help, the "help" menu

Okay let me send a feedback ticket into the void of never-read and never-opened feedback tickets.

I'm SURE this will get somewhere.

(that was sarcasm, I'm sure it actually won't go anywhere)

sarcasm is rarely productive.

and as M.ossop said above, that particular feedback is unlikely to change the decision

Removing features that a user uses daily without their input and then making it virtually impossible for them to file a complaint or provide feedback about it, and then not really doing anything to change it once they DO give feedback.

Is NOT productive.

But sure, the sarcasm thing

it's not a matter of "flip a switch", servers cost money, need maintenance, and are potential legal liabilities

Like since it's set in stone and the feedback is both a hassle to give AND likely to be ignored (your own words) then all I have left is sarcasm.

Sorry not sorry.

And that's the reason it's gone? Because all the articles say it's been removed because users "found it confusing"

Which sounds like catering to the lowest, dumbest, common denominator.

Why not keep the feature but let us designate our own sites for it to upload to then?

Developers should be cautioned against adding features and then removing them in the future after users have gotten used to them. It's easier to add than it is to take away, and you create less unhappy users that way.

idk, though that would likely be used by even less people than used uploads

The kid who never got an icecream is significantly happier than the kid who I gave icecream to and then took it away from.

Mozilla is a not-for-profit organization. Why do the numbers even matter?

Shareholders beating your door down over this feature that isn't used enough to justify costs?

If barely anybody uses it, then how can you say that it's too costly to maintain? No one pays for it whether 1,000 people use it or 1,000,000.

It's better if less people use it because you can just pay for a server small enough to server the few who use that feature.

Anyways good talk. Glad to see that the internet, which is the most powerful and significant technology invented in the modern age, is gatekept by these access points called "browsers" that no individual person TRULY gets a say in. :D

maintaining a feature for a few users is probably not the best use of limited resources, and maintenance/legal risks don't go down significantly with fewer servers

Free internet indeed.

Later gator.

good talk

i do wish were were clearer when shutting down features

another day, another "i want free X, but you won't give it to me, therefore the world is terrible" rant.

well, if the article said "we are removing it because it was confusing", i can understand the frustration

frustration is understandable, as is the desire to vent it. but it crosses over into entitlement sometimes.

(hearing that will of course only increase frustration, but it still needs to be pointed out once in a while)

everyone's entitled, whenever google shuts down Reader, or Inbox, or ThingOfTheWeek...

sure, but a sense of entitlement doesn't get the work done or pay the bills to keep the servers running.

tru dat

fantasai posted a similar rant Oct, 2018 on m.d.platform titled "How do I file a bug?"

<quote>

Start here, at Mozilla's home page: mozilla.org

Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions for building the source and submitting a patch.

(Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by asking here already. Walk me through the process of discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it anymore so I need some help.)

~fantasai

[...]

From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important, or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem.

I don't know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very demoralizing that there even is any. :(

</quote>

can we use ccache on windows?

hmm I guess we'd use sccache. I see there are build instructions for windows. I'll have to play around with that

good evening

ot: agreed that the "how do i contribute" angle is perplexing to some, but it is a useful filter in a weird sense (to keep expectations in check, even if in a convoluted manner).

twisniewski: I'm not sure that it is a useful filter in the way you are describing. It is *a* filter. But I would guess it filters on things that aren't really filtering on.

it's not a filter i agree with, but it does raise the bar just high enough that it tests the willingness of a person to contribute, rather than just complain or demand. it also lets those folks know that they won't just get their way because they want something. which is anathema to those of us who want to be open to all comers, but also provides some

groundedness to the whole effort.